Welcome to episode 16 of Creative Collaboration: Conversations with Veronica and Jillian. Today, Veronica Guguian and Jillian Vorce delve into the ebbs and flows of passion in business, emphasizing the need for diversity, creativity, and delegation. They highlight the struggle of maintaining enthusiasm and stress the significance of mentors, self-reflection, and restructuring in staying engaged. Discussing their own experiences, they advocate for adaptability and changing perspectives to reignite a love for entrepreneurship while acknowledging that growth doesn't always equate to expanding team size. The duo also explores shared values and considers the idea of organizing a retreat for fellow entrepreneurs to enhance their businesses.
On today's episode Veronica and Jillian discuss the concept of falling in and out of love with one's business, the importance of variety and stimulation in work, and the need for diversity and creativity to stay engaged. They acknowledge the challenges of maintaining enthusiasm and the importance of delegation and outsourcing tasks. They also emphasize the value of masterminds, mentors, and coaches, and regularly assess and restructure business activities.
Veronica and Jillian discuss the importance of delegation and trusting one's abilities in business. She acknowledges her struggle with delegating tasks that take longer than usual, but recognized the value of this for her company. She refers to her marketing methodology, which involves self-reflection for entrepreneurs to understand what they want to do and what they don't want to do in their business.
Jillian reflects on her own business journey, identifying her love for strategizing and collaborating with clients. She expresses her desire to do more of this, as she is now welcoming new client engagements after working with her previous roster of clients for the past 10 years.
They agree that entrepreneurship is a lifestyle and adaptability is key to coping with changing feelings about one's business. Also,that a combination of changing perspective, delegation, and implementation could help them fall back in love with their businesses.
The two also discuss the challenges of growing a business, acknowledging the pressure to scale or expand but emphasizing that growth doesn't necessarily mean adding more people.
Towards the end, they talk about their shared values and working styles, and the possibility of organizing a retreat for entrepreneurs to work on their businesses.
Entrepreneurship and Love: A Discussion
Veronica and Jillian discussed the concept of falling in and out of love with one's business, acknowledging that it's a natural part of entrepreneurship. Veronica credited Julia Perkins from wise minds for bringing up this topic. Jillian, who had recently felt unfulfilled with her business, related the relationship with one's business to a romantic relationship. Veronica emphasized the importance of variety and stimulation in work to avoid monotony and boredom, and the need for diversity and creativity to stay engaged. They agreed that entrepreneurship is a lifestyle and adaptability is key to coping with changing feelings about one's business.
Maintaining Enthusiasm and Delegating Tasks
Veronica and Jillian discussed the challenges of maintaining enthusiasm for their business activities and how to effectively delegate tasks. Veronica acknowledged the importance of working with coaches and accountability groups to help her stay on track and maintain perspective. Jillian emphasized the value of external viewpoints to provide a different perspective and challenge normal assumptions. Both agreed on the need to regularly assess and restructure their business activities, with the end of the year providing a perfect opportunity for this.
Masterminds, Mentors, and Marketing Methods
Jillian shared her experiences with masterminds, mentors, and coaches and how they helped her in her business journey. She emphasized the importance of being purposeful and deliberate about identifying the things she loves doing in her business. Veronica, in turn, discussed her marketing methodology, which involves self-reflection for entrepreneurs to understand what they want to do and what they don't want to do in their business. Both agreed on the need to delegate and outsource tasks and focus on activities that bring the highest value. Veronica also mentioned that she is gradually moving away from tasks she doesn't enjoy, which she sees as a sign of growth and progress in her business.
Delegation and Trust
Veronica and Jillian discussed the importance of delegation and trusting one's abilities in business. Veronica acknowledged her struggle with delegating tasks that take longer than usual, but recognized the value of this for her company. Jillian praised Veronica for her progress in trusting herself and her abilities. They both emphasized the importance of focusing on tasks that bring joy and value to the business, and delegating or outsourcing tasks that don't. Towards the end, Jillian reflected on her own business journey, identifying her love for strategizing and collaborating with clients. She expressed her desire to do more of these tasks and less of the maintenance and nurturing aspects of her business.
Shared Values and Working Styles
Veronica and Jillian had a discussion about their shared values and working styles. Veronica emphasized the importance of not sharing too many ideas and being selective with clients, while Jillian expressed her preference for a more collaborative approach. They also talked about the value of sharing ideas and perspectives, and the possibility of organizing a retreat for entrepreneurs to work on their businesses. Towards the end of the meeting, they agreed on the importance of taking action and not letting good intentions go unexecuted. They also expressed interest in creating a product or service that facilitates structured exercises and massive action for entrepreneurs.
Retreat Concept and Collaboration Discussion
Jillian and Veronica had a discussion about an ideal retreat concept and potential collaboration. They both shared their ideas, with Jillian suggesting a business and marketing-focused retreat, and Veronica proposing the concept of falling in and out of love with their businesses.
They emphasized the importance of refining services and offering them to a select group of clients. The idea of collaborating on a business venture was left open-ended, with Jillian considering creating a 1.0-version of the retreat concept if they can't find an existing one that suits them.
People & Resources Mentioned in This Episode
About Veronica Guguian
- Website: https://spinideas.nl/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/veronica-guguian
About Jillian Vorce
- Website: https://thejilliangroup.com/better
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillianvorce
Credits
- Music Composed by BeeLa Music
- Voiceover by Amanda Balagur
Veronica Guguian Hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode number 16 of Creative Collaboration: Conversations with Veronica and Jillian. And as always, I'm Veronica, and I'm here with Jillian.
Jillian Vorce: Hello. And today's topic is falling in and out of love with your business. Or, I guess, with my business or you with your business. Right.
Veronica Guguian: So with our businesses in and out of love. Yeah. I think everyone goes through that. And I do need to give credit where it's due because when we were discussing topics and what to discuss, this topic came to my mind because of Julia Perkins from Wise Minds; she really talks quite a lot about this, and she makes perfect sense because I'm pretty sure like Jillian, you are now in that moment where you are falling in love with your business. You're redefining it, and I'm kind of doing something similar. I know I did. Actually, I can't say I fell off. I did have that moment, but I feel I need to change different things as well because it makes perfect sense. We are changing as human beings. So, of course, that will have an impact on your business, especially when it's your business.
Veronica Guguian: It's not that you are working for someone else, but it's part of your day-to-day. And I always say entrepreneurship is a lifestyle. So it's not like you're switching it off the moment you close your laptop. On the contrary, it actually comes even more during the night when you're preparing the agenda for the next day. So, it makes perfect sense.
Jillian Vorce: It's so funny listening to you talk. Oh, man, I just thought of this. Yeah. It's not a new way to think about it, but it just made me laugh for a minute because, yeah, we have a relationship with our business, right? And so it's, I think, perhaps constructive to think of it in those terms. And so thinking about that made me laugh because, yeah, I just had the breakup conversation with a client that I had for ten years.
Veronica Guguian: Right, breakup conversation with a client, yeah.
Jillian Vorce: But thinking about it in the way I would describe it, I just quickly had a flash. Like, how would I describe that relationship if it were a romantic relationship? And I would describe it as a very vanilla, very, just flat. Maybe the word would be boring, but it was like, not like it was okay. What would be the word to describe?
Veronica Guguian: It was like, comfortable.
Jillian Vorce: Comfortable status quo. Like, okay. It wasn't a lot of peaks and it wasn't a lot of valleys. It was just exactly what to expect when. Yes. And so that was okay for a while, but definitely, for the last stretch of time, I knew that it wasn't a bad relationship. IT wasn't one that I needed to eject myself out of. It wasn't one of those situations. It was more that I wanted to fly. I want to do more, and I want to have more life, more energy, and more collaboration. So that's why it came up, because thinking about the things that I love about my business, it's not that I was falling out of love, it was more like the monotony, and it just wasn't fulfilling enough.
Jillian Vorce: So that part of it I had to move on from in order to make space for the things that I do love about my business and my work. So I was just thinking about the parallels of how we show up in our personal relationships or our romantic relationships, and then how about the relationship we have with our businesses and looking at the overlaps and differences thereof, I actually.
Veronica Guguian: Love this comparison because thinking about the jobs that I left and businesses that I had also in my business and what I do with my clients, I'm looking for that creativity. This is why I have such a broad range. I'm covering such a broad range of industries because that stimulates me, that makes me curious, that makes me research, that makes me be creative, and that creativity that will apply to an industry can take over to another industry. And you can do amazing things, because what kills me, literally kills me, is that monotony. It's nice to have predictability, but you do need the peaks. For me, the predictability is that. Feel that. Okay, so those are the basics. And now we can start building and exploring and experimenting and just discovering what we like and what we don't like.
Veronica Guguian: To keep the metaphor going, because otherwise we'll be so boring. And when you're boring, that's actually my problem. When you're bored, you're not delivering. When you're bored, you're just doing it. Everything automatically. For example, driving. I love driving. So actually, I will be much more prone to have an accident when I go very slow than when I go very fast, because then it's easy. What can go wrong, right? Quite fast? Then you pay attention because a lot of things, you take more things into account. Like, I can't break at the last moment, because if I'm going with 150, there are different factors to take into account. And if a car is coming in front of me or changing lanes, I need to be much more aware. Right? So your attention is different.
Veronica Guguian: So it's the same when you have new clients and diverse clients and when you're loving what you're doing and the creativity. And this is actually what I need in my business. So for me, what I noticed was the moment when, for example, for my previous job, I had only one job since I moved to the Netherlands. You could wake me up at 02:00 in the night and I was able to do the job and actually not make mistakes. Like, I knew everything by heart. That was the moment too. Okay, that's not working anymore. Right? So it kind of applies to the business. Like, for example, the online networking with the spin that we discussed a couple of episodes ago. I think it was online networking with the Spoon 2.0 and Spin 2.0 was the same.
Veronica Guguian: Like, I can do it anytime, any moment. I remember the butterfly said, what am I going to present now? How can I do it at the beginning when I don't have that? Okay, something needs to change. How do I fit this into the business? Do I need to drop it? Or what do I need to do with it because it's not exciting anymore? And if I'm not excited, I'm not producing the best results.
Jillian Vorce: So what about thinking of falling in and out of love with our business in two other ways? One is like the idea of working in our business. It's like the things that we love to do or don't love to do in our business, but then also working on our business. Right. Because sometimes I think if it's the things like they are working in our business, it's easier to delegate those things or to outsource those things that we don't love to do.
Veronica Guguian: Correct. And that's the first thing you need to start doing, by the way, for all the listeners, the moment you, even before you can afford it, because then you'll be able to afford it, actually.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, absolutely. And knowing what those things are and owning them and being proactive about finding other ways to get them addressed. Because sometimes, it can take us hours to do something because it's grueling to us, and we procrastinate, and we drag it through the mud, whereas somebody else that maybe is their specialty or something, that's a drop in the hat for them, they can do it in 20 minutes.
Veronica Guguian: Exactly.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah. But I think it's also interesting. So, I'm curious if you have any examples of these. Not to put you on the spot, but I just did. But I'm curious if you have any examples about the working in the business part or working on the business and how you feel overall, kind of holistically, about your business and things and maybe how you fall in or out of love with it or the things that need to happen to run the business or any way you want to respond. I'm curious and interested.
Veronica Guguian: It's a very good question, very complex, and I think we need to break it down, and blur points. But I'm pretty sure that's the case for every entrepreneur. The moment your business grows, you are so focused on working on your business that you forget to work on your business.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah.
Veronica Guguian: Even when you start delegating, is that peak? Right. You get more clients on board. Those clients need to. You need to start producing, getting the right team, monitoring, maintaining the relationship, being creative, implementing, monitoring, and on and on. Right. It's hierarchical, and then you forget to actually work on your business. And in my case, I do work with coaches, so they help me do that. And before having that, I had an accountability group. And before that, also a mastermind. And that helps me to get myself out of it and to see the on. But what I'm realizing alone, for me personally, it's very hard to do that, and I will stop now. I'm in a process, just like you, of changing different things. We are reaching the end of the year, and everyone, as everyone else, is.
Veronica Guguian: Okay, what do I want to keep? What do I want to drop? How do I want to restructure things? There are a couple of things that we keep on talking about, and we want to launch, and we never make the time, and now is the moment to actually make the time to launch them and to implement them. But for me personally, what does help is having some outside view because I'm so caught up in the day-to-day activity and for me, they are normal things. I'm very curious how it is for you that sometimes I don't realize external people are not common for them or they don't know them.
Veronica Guguian: And this why it's so important to work with external parties when you have to work on your business, to not necessarily them to do it, but to just drag you a little bit out to provide you a different perspective or to just provide that cold shower that will just nap you out of your comfort zone and the normal dream that you have. How about you?
Jillian Vorce: So I love that you brought up outside resources, external resources, as a way, as a tool to help us make sure we're also working on our business. So that's great. And I, too, have participated in masterminds, which are really great. And still to this day, I have an ongoing relationship with a mastermind that we have a monthly check-in, and it's really great to talk about kind of high level business objectives, et cetera. So I'm a huge fan of that, as well as through mentors and coaches. So all of the things that you said are really important.
Jillian Vorce: I think the part that I guess became trickier for me, or that I may have lost sight of, is this bit about what I love with my business because in looking at it and being extremely candid about it, my 1.0 version of my company, as I now describe it or refer to it as it served its purpose, right? So, I was able to employ a lot of people for a period of time. So it was somewhere like 55 contractors over those years anyway. So that was good. Also, I had a steady income for many years and was able to serve a lot of clients for a long time. So there's a lot of positive things.
Jillian Vorce: It also built it into a place where I could step away from it for periods of time while I was going through multiple surgeries and IVF and then pregnancy and childbirth and then postpartum and all the goodness that goes with that. So I was able to have a business intact through all of that. So amazing. And so it's important for me, I'm saying this aloud, maybe it's relevant to somebody else, but it's also important for me to own that and to recognize it for what it was. And so it served that purpose. However, it also, over time, got further and further away from the things that I love doing.
Jillian Vorce: And so that's where I'm at now, is being much more purposeful and deliberate about identifying those things that I do love and more proactively putting them back into my routine and how I show up in business and what the 2.0 version is becoming. So, yeah, that's, for me, where I'm at.
Veronica Guguian: It's very hard, but it's very good. And we actually discussed my marketing methodology for the strategy. The first step is exactly about that. Who are you as an entrepreneur, how do you, and also your company, how do you want to perceive, what do you want to do, what don't you want to do and translate that, because if you are forcing, it will not work. It will be seen, and you are not going to deliver. What's something that you are proud of, and that's the moment. Once you have that, that's the moment to see what do I need to delegate, what do I need to keep in house, and what do I need to keep with me. So there are several levels, actually. What do I need to outsource? Not delegate. I think that's the right word.
Veronica Guguian: What do I need to outsource, what do I need to keep inside and delegate, and what needs to be kept with me? I'm actually now going through a similar moment, but it happened very organically. I just realized it. So I'm very proud of it, actually, because of different things that need to be done, I'm realizing I actually don't want to do it. And until now, I would force myself to do them because they have to be done. But now, I mean, that's actually, I really don't want to do this. Do I actually need to do this? Can anyone else do that? What is my involvement, and where do I bring the highest value? And I'm realizing, I had yesterday a quick chat with Stephanie. She's working with me, and I shared that with her, and she was good.
Veronica Guguian: You should actually focus on what I want to focus on. The partnerships that I'm creating, on the discussions, on meeting prospects, clients, and the creative part. And to leave that part to her or to someone else because I'm realizing it will actually take me longer, like what you said.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah.
Veronica Guguian: And not because I'm not qualified. It's because I just don't want to do it. So, instead of doing it in 3 hours, I will probably take one day and still not finish it because I just don't want to do it.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, absolutely.
Veronica Guguian: Does that serve me and my company? No.
Jillian Vorce: Why?
Veronica Guguian: I'm proud of myself, and this is actually very important that I'm saying I'm proud. It's a learning curve for me, is the fact that I'm realizing it, and I'm taking ownership of that, and I'm letting it go. And I think that's also part of the process of re-falling in love with my business because that will give me the time either to read something that is not business related, but that will help me be creative and bring something into my business or focus on building those relationships that I love doing and they actually bring value to my company and just to explore new opportunities. Sometimes, doing less means doing more for your business.
Jillian Vorce: Yes. I love that. Yeah, it's a great example. So congratulations to you for kind of. Yeah, I would say arriving at a new frontier of doing that organically without tons of thought and focused effort that it seems like it's been something that you strive to do. It sounds like you have stepped into that now, kind of organically, looking to delegate things as opposed to forcing it. So that's a celebratory moment for you. That's a really important one, actually, as a business owner.
Veronica Guguian: And I do hope that for everyone, and it's not easy. Don't get me wrong, a lot of bad things are happening or moments or doubts, but it does help, and that also shows I'm getting more confident in what I'm doing. And I think that's actually, we discussed women in business in the previous episode, and I don't think it applies only to women, by the way. This applies to trust in you as an entrepreneur, especially if you are doing it for a long time. So I have been since 2017, like January. I've been doing it for a long time. I have had clients for years. They are happy. They are staying with us. So that shows we do know what we are doing.
Veronica Guguian: So maybe when you have that, so you do have a track record, is the time you need to stop and say, hey, I have this. So that means I'm doing something good. So I just need to trust and go forward, and it's the same with you. Like, we kept on discussing this over dinner. You know what you're doing. You just need to take on. Yeah, absolutely.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah. I think it's been really good for me to go through the process of identifying what are the things I really enjoy, what are the things that I love doing? And what I realize is the things that I love most are the things I also did early on in my 1.0. Right. So those things are like, I love strategizing with clients about how they can either achieve some desired outcome, some growth outcome or to troubleshoot or fix something. So I love strategizing, and then strategizing for me, I couch that in with pitching because the way I prospect is, I guess people would call it pitching. So I would do a more consultative selling approach.
Jillian Vorce: But I really enjoy that because it's so much based on problem-solving and collaborating and being very removed from the outcome and whether or not they hire me or not. But I really enjoy that. I love that so much, and I did that a lot in the beginning, and a lot of those encounters turned into long-term clients. Right. So it's been a bit of time since I was engaged in that type of energy. So I love doing that. I love collaborating. I love collaborating with my team and I love collaborating with clients. Yeah, those are the things that I love to do, but I haven't been doing as much of those because I was more so maintaining or nurturing and not really having my sleeves up, getting my hands dirty, and engaging in those new growth opportunities for my own company.
Veronica Guguian: This is why we have this together because that's also my style. I'm going and I'm starting sharing ideas to the level that actually my team is like, you need to shut up. Don't share it so much. They will steal the idea and go for it. But the specific point, I don't really care so much. Like, okay, that means you're not my client. And I do know, actually, it happened when we sent my proposals more like the beginning of a strategy plan marketing than a strategy plan than actually a proposal. But on the other hand, what I saw is that people that will take them and try to do them by themselves, they will not be able to because they don't really understand the thought behind it. So if we know the car, it will not work. You're not going to get the results.
Veronica Guguian: So it's like, okay, if you are like that, show me something about your character and the way you are working and how you approach business. And at a specific point, I'm like, actually, thank you for doing that. Because otherwise, we would have had problems working together and better solve them at the beginning than when you are in the middle of the project, when it's really hard to get out of that particular situation or project. So I think it depends. It's coming back to values in one way. Like, what's your mission? What are your values? And one of my values is abundance. So, in that case, sharing ideas and perspectives like you do, it's part of that no one can actually take my creativity. Right? So, I know I'm always going to come up with ideas. That's my superpower, right?
Jillian Vorce: Yes. And that's the reason that we're here is because the abundance mentality happens to be a value that we share, right, exactly. It's how we both show up in life and business. So it's pretty cool. So we both love that about our businesses falling in and out of love.
Veronica Guguian: To bring it back to our business, to fall back in love with our business. I'm actually curious; a lot of entrepreneurs, and you see this everywhere. I haven't done it, but maybe it could be interesting. You see different retreats for entrepreneurs or business people to go and discuss and have a coach and have a program around it. And they're also for smaller entrepreneurs. You get your materials, and you go alone, and you seclude yourself in a beautiful place for a long weekend and work on that. Have you ever done it? Does that work for you?
Jillian Vorce: I have not. Have. I used to go, yeah, that was not the same thing. I would say no. I've had close encounters, but I haven't actually done that. So you have not either?
Veronica Guguian: I have not. I do wonder if how many people follow true afterward, because that's great to go and start creating, but do you really follow through? And my gut feeling tells me the big majority is not. What helps me though, is to meet people I trust and to share and get a different perspective. That really helps me. And to just see different methods apply to what I do and to switch it like a cube. You keep on turning it and look at it from different parts and you see different aspects, different nonsenses, small details that spark an idea or make you really. Oh, but I love that, and I forgot about it. Shall I just go back and implement it or chew as kids? I have a dog.
Veronica Guguian: Everyone knows when you give the toys, and he gets bored with them, then you put them away, and then you take them out after a couple of weeks, and they love it again, and I think old again. Exactly. I think that applies to your business because you're so used to a couple of things that you kind of forget about them or take them for granted. And if you just leave them and you look at them again after a short period.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, I think so.
Veronica Guguian: Differently.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah. So a quick comment about. Yeah, you were saying you wonder if people follow through. So one of the ideas that I've been carrying around for years is similar to that. If you haven't found a book that you're looking for, maybe you should write it kind of a thing, or you're trying to figure out, find a product. There's a product that you can't find, and you want to create it.
Veronica Guguian: Like that idea, like mind based conference.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, exactly. Something like that. So for me, I thought the same thing. It would be interesting too, and maybe it exists, and I just haven't found it yet, but I would love to attend whatever word we're going to call it. I guess we'll go with retreat, but to be around like-minded people to work through some structured, facilitated exercises and such. So a lot of the mental side, the mindset pieces, some strategizing, but also probably 50% or more of the time, also focused on taking massive action because I think there's too often a disconnect between the things that we're thinking about and the things that we do. And for a lot of us, we get home, we have all this stuff, and then it's like. And so if we can also add that into the same experience, then we're going back home.
Jillian Vorce: We're going back home with the table already set, we're already in motion, things are already started, we've already made some of those scary phone calls, or we've already published the thing or whatever the thing is for everybody. So for me, that type is how I have always envisioned, like an ideal type of retreat. Get it done. Yeah, it's going to be on my list for going into the new year to see if I can find one like that. And if not, I might have to create the 1.0 version of that because it would be really fun to join for that.
Veronica Guguian: You do the business part, and I help you with the marketing because it's very in line with the marketing accelerator we are launching. So that could go very in line. But I agree, actually. And guys, this is how new business ventures between the two of us are showing up.
Jillian Vorce: So stay tuned for our retreat.
Veronica Guguian: How we fall in love with our businesses again, having a new idea.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, there's actually a woman, Amy, who has. I just remembered I should chat with Amy. Amy has a really interesting retreat that she runs; I think it's twice a year. And I think, yeah, Amy, I have to chat with her, and I forget what it's called. It's like the happy avocado or something like that. Something avocado or the ripe avocado would make more sense. But maybe I was happy. Anyway, she has a retreat, so I should chat with her about how she facilitates hers. So that's a note to self. But anyway, carrying on.
Veronica Guguian: I lost my line of thought, sorry. But coming back to the discussion, I think we can actually put it on two lines. Is one, is it falling in love and out and in with your business? In and out, in and out of love with your business? Purely. Do you need to? To love what you're doing? Is that a mental thing, or is it also related to the practice? Because sometimes, we are just overwhelmed by the day-to-day activities and I'm pretty sure it's like looking around and talking with business owners about how we are mature companies. You tend to be overwhelmed to a specific point. And then I think you start falling out of love with your business. So is it just changing perspective, delegating, or. Actually, I think it's the combination.
Veronica Guguian: Now I'm thinking while I'm talking, you do need to have the click in your head, what is happening? Come up with ideas, but I think you need to implement them in order to fall in love again with them. Because otherwise, it will just stay at that theoretical level. To make the metaphor with the boyfriend that you said, like, the relationship is not working, but he's still comfortable. Should I actually leave him? We had a nice day today. Until the next fight that you have, right? Yeah. And then you restart the cycle.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah. Or even if there's no fight, because if there's no fight, it's sometimes even harder because you're like, there's not anything bad, it's not wrong, it's just not quite enough. And actually, my last point that I'll bring up on this topic is that as a quick one, and it's something that I've seen and experienced with a number of clients and also just colleagues and folks that I've met over the years. Sometimes, when we start businesses, somebody you're good at your craft with, you start doing your craft, you get better and better at it, and then you're faced with, how do I grow? And so I start growing by hiring people, and next thing you know, you've got this business to manage, but the more successful you are, and the bigger your company gets, the further away from your craft you can be.
Jillian Vorce: And so for some people, it's like an awareness about that and then having the humility or courage to say, you know what? I really don't want to have a team of twelve or 30 or 40. I really like doing my craft. So maybe I'll have a couple of assistants, and I'm going to just do my thing. And so there's nothing wrong with that. And I think that there's a lot of external pressure and all this talk about scaling and growing companies and whatnot, and I think that can contribute to the love factor, and people can feel pressured to try to follow suit and to do these things to scale or grow. Scaling or growing doesn't have to be adding people to your team. It doesn't have to be any of the things that other companies are doing.
Jillian Vorce: It can be the way you scale your own services or the way you scale the service you offer to a select group of clients, et cetera.
Veronica Guguian: I'm so happy in a lot of ways.
Jillian Vorce: That's my last point on this topic.
Veronica Guguian: And actually, if I can build on that and just add to this, it's not even earning more money. If that's enough for you and you want to work that amount of hours, that's also fine. It's just defining what is important for you. I think that's the bottom line.
Jillian Vorce: And then when we define what it is, we have a better tendency to love it because we've been thoughtful about it. That's our case for this one.
Veronica Guguian: I think that's a very nice way to end this episode.
Jillian Vorce: All right, so we'll say that's a wrap on episode 16.
Veronica Guguian: And I'm curious. I do want to launch the invitation for our listeners to write down: are you in or out of love with your business at this point? All right, until next, thanks for listening. Till next time.