In this episode, Veronica & Jillian discuss the importance of doing a mid-year business review discussing holiday culture differences, summer strategy planning, evaluating business performance, event and networking impact, marketing channels and subscriptions, service offerings and capacity, and team and stakeholder engagement.
Today, Veronica Guguian and Jillian Vorce discuss strategies for reviewing and adjusting business goals mid-year. Veronica emphasizes the importance of assessing progress on initial goals, such as she’s doing with her new Marketing Accelerator program, and making adjustments based on market feedback and company interests.
They both highlight the necessity of measuring productivity and profitability, considering both qualitative and quantitative metrics to understand what efforts have been effective. The conversation also touches on sustainable business growth, with a focus on ensuring that business activities are manageable and resources are used efficiently.
Mentioned in This Episode
About Veronica Guguian
About Jillian Vorce
Credits
Veronica Guguian
Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 36 of creative collaborations, conversation with Veronica and Jillian. Hey, Jillian, how are you?
Jillian Vorce
I am well today. How's it going with you?
Veronica Guguian
Good. I'm. I had a shock rally, realizing that we are halfway through the year.
Jillian Vorce
I know. Just like that. Yeah, I know. I know.
Veronica Guguian
And what better moment to discuss where we are with our business and what we should look like and where we should look to see if we are in line with what we set up to achieve.
Jillian Vorce
I know.
Veronica Guguian
The beginning of the year then. Now that we are at the middle of the year, even if people are thinking about holidays, maybe this is an extra reason to know what to do, especially when you're an entrepreneur.
Jillian Vorce
Yeah, I think so. And I feel like it's so cliche, but it's so strange that it's. Yeah, suddenly we're looking at the second half of the year. Like, I feel like it wasn't that long ago that we were talking about our goals for this year and just happened. I think they say it happens faster and faster the older we get. And so maybe that's what I'm experiencing right now, but it's like, yeah, suddenly we're halfway through the year, so it's certainly a good time to. Yeah. To revisit our businesses and. Yeah, and maybe our lives to see where we're at compared to what our objectives or goals were to start the year. So, yeah, I feel like it's a juicy topic for us to jump into, but it seems that the timing is appropriate.
Veronica Guguian
Yeah. And especially everyone is thinking about holidays. And I know it's a difference. We kept on discussing this, the difference between American culture and European culture. And before we press the record button, here in the Netherlands at least, and in Europe actually, you do see countries like Italy or Spain where they do close everything for one month. Like that month, don't even think about doing business. It's not the case for all the countries like here. Definitely you still do business, but everything is slowing down. So people take time to go and be with their family or visit friends or be on holiday and actually recharge. However, kept on discussing, and we have several episodes about entrepreneurship and how the entrepreneurial life affects your private life. That actually is not. You can't really separate them.
Veronica Guguian
And maybe now is, maybe those could be good points for people that are going or heading towards the holiday. How do you approach that as an entrepreneur? How is that affecting what you're doing? And what will be the energy that we again kept on discussing about? How is that impacting your energy? But as well as the activities that you need to do moving towards the end of the year, the next usually is the busiest part of the year, actually the second half of the year.
Jillian Vorce
It's funny that you say this because actually just this morning I was at the gym and listening to a podcast and suddenly it made me think about, you know, think about this. They knew. We're recording this episode today and I was thinking about the summer holiday. And like you mentioned, it's still other countries. It's, there is still work happening here, but it's certainly quite a bit different than the culture I'm used to the. Yeah, the work culture in the US. So that's the. Yeah, the caveat to this. So I found myself thinking, oh, look at that. This summertime is finally here. I'll be able to catch up on things and work. And it's like using the time to be able to. Yeah. To really dig into where I'm at and to very intentionally set up cues three and four.
Jillian Vorce
So I was thinking about that, but then there's also that other side, which is kind of, I think what you're alluding to, which is you. Yeah. Also, at least for me, I'm trying to better kind of acclimate to life and culture here and to also. Yeah. Not overwork based on my new environment and trying to strike that balance because I do now understand and really appreciate the downtime. And I can see so much value with that now. So I'm certainly not planning to work, you know, extra hours through the summer holidays. But I am thinking a bit about utilizing this time to really recalibrate and be very deliberate. Moving into the second half of the year.
Veronica Guguian
I was thinking there are two ways to go around it, just to give general advice or what I can do. And I'm okay to share how I will do it personally for my first pin ideas for my business, considering what I set up at the beginning of the year and how do I move everything towards the second of the year? Because it's true. For me, July is still quite busy, but August, as I described, and it's better to. It's actually not that quiet, but it's quieter. It's a good moment to actually see what do I want to do. For example, for me, August, July and August will be super busy with. Of promoting the new program that we just launched. The marketing accelerator that we kept on discussing for the last episodes, by the way, is live and yay, the first cohort.
Veronica Guguian
And we are also very busy promoting, creating and promoting the base conference that they are to go hand in hand. They are one is the best way to actually get everyone together and have them talk and interact and learn from each other. So for me, the first part is more, okay, what's happening? Let's. Let's implement and let's create. And the second part is more about implementation. Implementation. Getting the new clients and working actively towards that and organizing events, because that's one of the best places. The best. The best. I'm sorry, I can't find my words today.
Jillian Vorce
Yeah, that's okay. Monday.
Veronica Guguian
Monday. I can't believe it's Monday. I know it's one of the best parts of the year for events. But if I think better about it, there are so many events happening in the second part of the year that maybe we should focus the beginning of the year. But it's also mentality because people are going to come. The weather, at least in the Netherlands, is really bad. So people need interaction, they need something to keep them going. Otherwise it gets very depressing. That's again, a cultural thing, but also the outside influences you and how do I approach everything? So I kept on discussing, and I know you are the one that very good with actually seeing the number of the episodes.
Veronica Guguian
I always towards the middle of the year, I go back to the goals that I set up at the beginning of the year and see from those how much did I actually achieved so far and where do I stand with the rest. For example, I'm quite on time with accelerator. Maybe a couple of weeks late, if I'm totally honest. Yeah, I am there. But there are other things that we wanted you to do that we are quite behind. So for me it's a moment to see what why that didn't happen. We don't have enough manpower or maybe we lost interest in that particular direction because it's a specific service that we wanted to promote more, but we realized we don't really sell it so much.
Veronica Guguian
So for me will be taking the time to see we are not selling it because us as a company, we are not attracted to it anymore. So we want to create something else or the market is not that interested in it because there's something very important and we just need to let it go or switch it or what. Actually, these are the two scenarios.
Jillian Vorce
Yeah, yeah.
Veronica Guguian
And maybe we didn't promote it enough, maybe none of this, but maybe we didn't create enough content because looking back, I have to admit, we are behind with creating content. For example, we are good on social media, but in terms of creating content, in terms of articles, we did create, but not as many as we planned. So, yeah, we do it at spin. I'm curious, how do you do it at Julius?
Jillian Vorce
Yeah, so it reminds me, as you were describing, that I had a visual of somebody that like, you know, left a beach and started swimming, you know, saw like an island or something off in the distance and decided, oh, I'm going to start swimming there. But like, you start swimming and you're, you know where you're going, I'm going in this direction, you start swimming. But, you know, at some point it's a good idea. To kind of pick your head up to see, where am I going? Have the currents taken me this way? Or, you know, was it actually not an island? Was it a boat? And it's now gone, or, you know, whatever. So it's kind of prudent to pick our heads up to see.
Jillian Vorce
And so for you, because you started the year with very, you know, tangible, specific kind of deliverables, things that you wanted to build and launch. So it sounds like this kind of scenario of, like, the swimmer picking their head up is relevant. So it seems like this moment right now, this kind of summertime. Yeah. As a good summertime check in, pick the head up, you know, assess where we at. For me, it's. It's slightly different because I, you know, as we've talked about previously, I've been, yeah. In an exhilarating and sometimes painful way, very deliberately and actively exploring my next iteration and how to, yeah. How to insert myself into the business community here in the Netherlands and also in Europe, et cetera, and trying to decide what type of business structure is best for me and etc. Etcetera.
Jillian Vorce
So I've been continuing to build business while also keeping. Yeah, I've been exploring lots of different opportunities. So in a way, for me, it's a little bit of a difference, I'll use another beach analogy. It's kind of like, yeah, for much of this year, I've been collecting rocks and seashells kind of thing. And so now my pockets are full, and so now it's time to lay them out and explore. And so deciding, yeah, which ones are the keepers and which ones do I, you know, skip back into the ocean kind of a thing. So that's a bit. Yeah, it is. And so there's kind of two ways that I'm doing that, and I think hopefully some of these will be applicable to other people. Maybe it will make sense.
Jillian Vorce
So the first thing is I look at kind of qualitatively, right, so I look at things like what events have I gone to that really resonated with me so far? What people have I met, what conversations have I had, what organizations have really. Yeah. Clicked for me that make me feel like this is the right place. These are the people I want to work with. I want more of this. And this is where I want to incorporate this some way into my, you know, this next. Next iteration. So I look at the qualitative part, but then it's also looking at the. Yeah, the quantitative pieces of things. So what activities. Right. What campaigns have, actually. What activities or campaigns have actually led to new opportunities, either new clients or new partnerships, etcetera. And so I'm doing that as well.
Jillian Vorce
So, looking for me, it's been the. The most productive kind of, we'll just call efforts. It's because it's a bit of a mix. Number one is events and networking, for sure. But second to that, I would say it's maybe a tie. But social media and specifically LinkedIn has been quite productive for me, as has my newsletter. So my newsletter has also been, you know, productive. So I look at some of those things. So, again, the qualitative and then the.
Veronica Guguian
Quantitative, what do you define by being productive? In terms of leads? In terms of discussions, yes, leads.
Jillian Vorce
So it's productive for me. I feel like it's productive if there's. Yeah, I guess, something to show for it. Right. If there is some response, some. Yeah, some sort of traction. Yep. So that's how I think of it.
Veronica Guguian
And that's a good segue, actually, to KPI's how do we measure our. Everything? And you kind of already start saying that. And I mentioned the accelerator. Things, different things. And it's very definitely, you do need to listen a little bit to your gut feeling, like, how do you feel about it? But you do need to look at the numbers, because the numbers never lie. And sometimes our imagination or our mind can make something bigger than it is because maybe we are just very in love with that particular project or idea. However, the reality is, if you really, for example, a specific service that I need to see what is happening with it. You need to look at the numbers. You need to see why is that happening. Am I not promoting it enough, or am I promoting it?
Veronica Guguian
But the reaction from the audience, like you mentioned in the newsletter, in the social media or partnerships, is it high enough? What's happening with that? And that's actually what I invite everyone, every listener to do. You need to go and see what are you doing, what is working, but also what is not working. And you can take the learnings from what is learning from what is working and applying them moving forward, but you can't really take what is working and apply to something that is not working without doing further investigations why that particular activity is not working.
Jillian Vorce
Yes, sure. I think. Yeah. So, midway, again, another reason why this is an important time and step in the kind of life cycle or in the business is because of, number one. Like we'd said, we need to see if we're off track. But number two, we might have shifted or our, you know, the business landscape or something industry wide or whatever, something may have shifted as well. So it's a really good time and say, okay, are we, do we still have the same goals, objectives? Have they changed? Is there something new that has emerged that weren't counting on early in the year? And so, really, I think it is prudent to look at. Yes. The KPI's that were set previously to revisit those are you.
Jillian Vorce
I mean, a KPI is great, but if you're not collecting the data along the way, it becomes, or it's not clean data, et cetera. It's not as great or becomes a bigger project than it ought to be. So I think it's also a good time to continue to prune the KPI's. And what are the mechanisms by which we're collecting the data from those so we can, you know, kind of. Yeah. Make data driven decisions and as opposed to working only off of memory or gut, because, you know, gut can be helpful sometimes in memory. I don't know about yours, but mine is like touch and go, so it's all memories.
Veronica Guguian
I'm not gonna count on them. That's definitely not the way to go.
Jillian Vorce
But it's like, it seems like we can do that. We often think like, oh, yeah, I'll remember, but then we don't. Right. So it is kind of good to go back and look. Yeah, we don't. So I think it is really prudent to. To look, you know, based on data, of the things that we're doing, the things that the skus, the deliverables, the offers, the things that people can buy from us, what have you, which are the better performing, which ones are most in alignment with how you feel about your business now, the direction you want to go, and. Yeah. In the specifics. So a lot of business owners, companies, organizations I've worked with don't always know the exact numbers as well. They just have general idea or they know their revenue.
Veronica Guguian
90% of the companies.
Jillian Vorce
Yeah. They know their revenue per, but not the expenses and not the capacity. So it's a really important time to be able to look at. Okay, what are the things that are. We're creating traction with? And is this. Are these kind of. Yeah. Figure out what's driving those engines and then make those decisions and then double down on the things that are in alignment with what you want and what has been. Yeah, I keep using the word productive, but what has been, you know, what has worked so far?
Veronica Guguian
Yeah. Maybe not necessarily productive, but profitable.
Jillian Vorce
Yeah. I mean, profitable is key. Again, if people have the numbers, that makes it easier. Often they don't as much.
Veronica Guguian
Well, people tend to. They say they are productive, but I'm not really sure if they know what that means, because for them, being productive maybe is creating social media content. But if you don't go and measure it, as you said, doesn't mean you are productive, you are busy. Because productive is if you create something that actually produces results, in my perspective.
Jillian Vorce
Right, right. Yeah. And it's like the cause effect. Yes, the cause effect. We need to know what the effects are, which is. Yeah, what are we trying to create? What's the result we're trying to create. Exactly.
Veronica Guguian
And these are things like that you're using, which one is actually, like you mentioned, and I love that, the networking events and different social media, and I agree with you that for me also, events, conferences are the ones that work the best. But how do you measure that? Like, do you know how many people you spoke with? How many people you followed up, how many bands and so on? We do. Have we discussed this in different episodes? So I do invite people to go back and actually listen to that, because it's not that we don't have anything else to talk, but it's very important to go and look at the numbers.
Jillian Vorce
Yeah, for sure. And this is an example, a very, I think, a very simple and very tangible example of something that we can very easily incorporate into our workflows that can be very helpful later on, specifically around events. And for me, events sometimes can be, we'll call blurry. Right. Because it's event can be online or offline, and then it can be a webinar or a workshop, or it can be an online summit or whatever. So anything that you. Yeah, go to, it can be a business lunch with people. Whatever your thing is that you're going to, it's like, outside of your regular work, it's a separate thing, kind of bit. Yeah. So I keep track of each of those, and afterwards I have automatically scheduled in my calendar to do my. Yeah, my kind of post mortem about it. And so I.
Jillian Vorce
All the people that I met there, I tag in my CRM, so I know that's where I met them. And then I set up the cadence of when I want to follow up with those people. And then I do my, you know, the qualitative piece. Like, was this an event I would go to again, I look at how much the event was. Was it free or was it paid? And then see, when I go to this again, did I get the value et cetera. So I keep track of those as they go, because then when I'm doing my planning for next year, I can look at this and see, oh, what events might I want to proactively add to my calendar for next year? Which ones may I let just kind of fall by the wayside, etcetera.
Jillian Vorce
So when you do that, it's really helpful to know, especially when you're looking at budget in terms of money and also in time, like what do we budget towards events? Yeah, exactly.
Veronica Guguian
And here it's good actually to look at the numbers as well because there are a lot of events where you go because it's a fun event and you meet people that you know. But does that make sense for your business because you can still like, depends how you treat it. That doesn't mean don't go to that event, but don't treat business event. So it's, the mindset should be different and the budget that you allocate should be different from different pockets, let's say.
Jillian Vorce
So what about other things that are like more external things for, I'll say, your business rhetorically or just our businesses? I think that sometimes these are more conventional and perhaps easier to set up and to ascertain. Right. So things like web performance or, yeah, your impact of your social media presence or your newsletter or things like that, subscriptions, etcetera, is that something that, do you do that proactively or not? Do you advocate for that, do you not? Or what?
Veronica Guguian
Say, look at the numbers? Yes, we do that. And funny that you said subscriptions. Actually what, I'm in process of actually looking at all the tools that we pay for and recently I did that and stopped using paying a subscription for some of them because I realized we actually paid a lot of money per year to some specific tools that we don't really use. And you don't realize we are so used to having like the monthly business cost, like the normal cost of running a business, and it comes and it just keeps on going. But sometimes, especially when you're switching now, I said we launch different systems and things like that, services that require different systems. That means do I still need what I used to work with or what changed?
Veronica Guguian
What do I need to, like, do I need to use x or do I need to go to z, like different SEO systems, for example, or things like that? What are the services that I'm offering the most and what do I need to improve in delivering those services and what I'm not using that much? Can I actually switch from a monthly subscription to pay when I need things like that.
Jillian Vorce
So what about. And again, you can answer this for yourself. It doesn't have to be, or it can just be in general or working with clients, what have you. I'm just curious also about. Yeah. Or I guess I'll just speak directly and then you can chime in if you, if it's relevant for you. But I think when I was saying subscriptions, I was also talking about, like, newsletter subscriptions. Right. So looking at things like newsletters, you mean there are people subscribing to our newsletters? Yeah. So whether it's your separate newsletter, is it your LinkedIn newsletter, your social media following, maybe it's the events. Yeah, etcetera. Or your active kind of reach out, your outbound sales calls or outbound marketing efforts. Yeah. Etcetera. To look at those things and what the correlation is. For example. Yeah.
Jillian Vorce
It's sometimes hard to know if we get a new lead or a really good prospect or if you're depending on what type of business, if you're dealing with volumes sometimes. Yeah. Anyway, it's very. Yeah, it's hard to know. But if you meet somebody, like they may have seen you on LinkedIn before or seen your company or seen something, but they don't always know. People aren't always accurate reporters of things, but it's interesting to see what the correlations are. So, yeah, I was working with one client and they had more volume, so were looking at what is the correlation, the relationship between the number of subscribers and downloads of their app to their revenue or revenue opportunities, and to see, because if you can start to chart these things, I mean, history isn't always. Yeah.
Jillian Vorce
It's not always a crystal ball for what's coming, but generally, you can start to understand trends, et cetera, can be helpful. So, I think. Yeah. So in terms of KPI's. Yeah, starting to look at those.
Veronica Guguian
We do that, for example, you know, we are running the online networking with the spin events every month, and we do notice and we do promote them actively. So we have different channels where we promote them, but one of the channels is LinkedIn, and that works very well for us. And we do reach more and more people because we do have the expert that is always a different expert. And of course, that comes with the network. And it's very interesting to see during that period, the promotional period, that you see an increase in the people that subscribe via the website, because we do look at that, because you do need to know what is working and what is not working. Of course, definitely it's working. We don't work with such a big amount of numbers.
Jillian Vorce
Right.
Veronica Guguian
For example, now we partnered that we are one of the official partners of the milestone, that they are organizing the AI meetup, global meetup. They have events in over eleven countries and we are their partners for the Amsterdam. And of course, you see a big. Yeah, a big amount of people coming because of that as well. I will be able, now we are measuring because, for example, as I said, we launched accelerators, so they will be included. We are preparing now, as I'm speaking, my team is preparing the newsletter, for example, going to see the reaction. And it's a big difference between big numbers, huge volume, lower volume. And this is also relative because when you say high volume, I'm seeing like 10,000 up will be for me. But somebody, for example, we're going to send it to around 700 people.
Veronica Guguian
For me, that's not necessarily big volume, but for others can. Big volume.
Jillian Vorce
Right, right. Yeah, there's, yeah, the numbers, it depends on what you're selling and there's a lot of kind of variables here. But yeah, it's fair. And a lot of like, more service oriented businesses, you may, I mean, if you got, you know, 100 clients would probably be like, you know, it's, it depends on what you're selling and how you deliver that. That, yeah, that value, etcetera.
Veronica Guguian
But calculated what we are doing, the marketing strategy, implementation, the program and everything, and what you are offering as well. They are more targeted and customized. So we do serve a higher number of clients, but not a huge one. So actually we are relatively small when it comes in terms of number of clients and how many clients are we able to serve at the given moment? Because we are fine with ten clients per month, but if you give us 20, then we have an issue to make sure we have the manpower in place. And tomorrow I have to deliver to 20 clients. I'm not able to do that.
Jillian Vorce
Right.
Veronica Guguian
Probably I can build it up, but it depends.
Jillian Vorce
I love this. Yeah, I love this conversation. It's highly relevant as well. Reminds me, so I have a sustainable growth program that's ongoing with clients in it and working. You do 90 day sprints, etcetera. And it's digging through a lot of the stuff. And what I'm finding is, and it reminds me of several conversations that we've had, namely about, you know, talking about the zebra, being a zebra and talking with these business owners about, you know, what are they trying to achieve. Right? Like what's, what type of revenue do they need for their business or what type of income do they want for themselves? And what is the relationship between those two? How many hours a week do they want to work, et cetera? And then using the, you know, some of these specific numbers to then create, like this master.
Jillian Vorce
Yeah, it's just math. I always tell them this is really simple. It's just math. Yes. But being able to look at things, and I think really much of this conversation is really about building a sustainable business. It's having the mindset and learning the building the muscle memory of the things to do to build a business that is sustainable. And so those are the things why, if you know what your KPIs are and you'll continue to evolve on those. So having, you know, starting with some and then looking periodically at term and interview, what is the data telling us? What is going on? Do we maybe. So I have this one client reminds me she has way too many skews. So it's like way too many things. So now we're consolidating those. And now we can see she can actually double her pricing.
Jillian Vorce
So now she can do better revenue, like double the revenue on half the clients or half the work. It's really interesting. So you can start to make very specific tweaks to the business when you have this put in place. So I think it's, to me, it's exciting. I love this type of conversation. This is really how you can grow.
Veronica Guguian
And I love the word sustainability and I want to. That has double meaning. So one is the sustainability part where we about the SDGs and ESG and everything, but sustainability means also to be able to grow in a consistent way for us. So for example, base where we have build, advanced, sustain, elevate. The sustainability part is about the health of the business and how you grow. Because if you're not able to grow in a sustainable way financially and from the resources point of view, you'll not be able to succeed because you're going to burn yourself out if you try to do everything or you're not going to be able to deliver. So you're affecting the quality of your work.
Veronica Guguian
So I want to invite people like, be aware of the meaning of sustainability, because when you say sustainability, everyone thinks about the ecological part or the social part, and that's very important, but it's much more than that.
Jillian Vorce
Yeah. So I talk about sustainable growth so that it doesn't, because if it's not sustainable, it's unsustainable. Right. Or in. Yeah, unsustainable. Yeah. So that would be like you just talked about. So burning out. And the other thing that's very relevant to being able to kind of, to build this search to achieve this is to also know your capacity situation. So it's really critical to know. And that's one of the numbers that we need to figure out. So it's not just, it's like, yeah, if your team, you know, maybe product x or whatever service x is your most profitable, but it takes up 95% of your team's capacity, whereas service Y is maybe not as profitable, but you can scale that more.
Jillian Vorce
So you need to be able to know what's kind of, what's the capacity situation and then always looking to build capacity, but not in unlimited fashion, building the capacity to meet the objectives of the business or the business owner.
Veronica Guguian
And I want to add one more thing. It's, I love how you. How you placed it. So if the resource, if the majority of your resources go to just one client or two, that they bring a lot of the revenue, it's actually not sustainable. What happens if right decides to stop? Then you are in a big, you are financially in big trouble.
Jillian Vorce
Exposed. You're exposed.
Veronica Guguian
And also, how was the stress level that is put on your company? And I'm not talking only about the financial stress, but also is everyone is focusing on that? Are they still creative enough for other things? Are they able to think about something else to create or to just produce? So I think it's. And it's something that I'm learning, to be honest. So it's not that I have all the answers, it's something that I'm also learning and looking around and exploring to see what was that balance. And I don't think talking with people around me is smarter than me. I'm realizing there's not a good way or a bad way to do it. It differs from company to company, and it's a constant learning curve because everyone is different. So what works in a company may not work in a different one.
Jillian Vorce
That's right.
Veronica Guguian
There are some principles, like the core principles that we just discussed here, that if you follow them, then you find your own way there. And I think when were discussing about the gut feeling, I think here is where the gut feeling works. Like how can you better utilize your resources based on the numbers and based on. Because when you work with people, you look at the numbers, but you can't really take out their feelings and how they feel and how they interact and how they work and communicate. And there you need, I think the leadership skills come into place here. How do you know?
Jillian Vorce
Absolutely, I think leadership. And then of course I'm going to say in data, because we're also doing this, like. Yeah, by having conversations, again, pre determined, like regular scheduled conversations and also kind of anonymous surveying as well, of your team. Like a couple of different strategies work, but to find out what's the capacity of your team individually and what is it, what is their appetite and how do they want to grow. And if you're building your business based on, are you building your business based on the lowest common denominator or are you building your business based on pushing them to the max, et cetera. So that goes into the capacity situation as well, which I think overall, I think there's one way to think about this episode or this conversation really is it's to control the things that we can control.
Veronica Guguian
Yes. And to have space for flexibility.
Jillian Vorce
Yes, for sure. So I think, yes. I would say my way to wrap this up would be in terms of thinking about, you know, we're halfway through the year, what are our KPI's, are we on target, are we not, et cetera. So I think, and just building business in general and the mindset around it. So I think, number one, be creative and be patient, but also be proactive.
Veronica Guguian
That's a beautiful way. I would add to this, you know, everyone is doing now team buildings and outings with the company or their employees. There's a reason for that. So I would go and make sure you have check ins with your team and stakeholders.
Jillian Vorce
Yes.
Veronica Guguian
So that being clients, that being people working in your team, either for you or with you, depending on how you're structured, different partners and that partnership we haven't discussed, but that applies the same everything that we discussed, and that's very important to see where you are and if you're still in aligned and what you want to, how do you want to move forward? And I think that's a wrap up. Was a long episode.
Jillian Vorce
Yeah, this was. So, yeah, that's a wrap on 36. So hopefully you dig into your kind of KPI's and have a look at your business, see if you're on target or not, and make the adjustments necessary so that you can be at a place that you're happy with come December. Yeah.
Veronica Guguian
Thank you for listening.
Jillian Vorce
Cheers.