In episode 28 of Creative Collaboration, Veronica and Jillian delve into the dynamic world of sales and marketing, offering fresh perspectives and actionable strategies. They emphasize the importance of personalized approaches, redefine leads as relationship opportunities, and provide insights for businesses adapting to the digital era.
In this episode, Veronica and Jillian dive back into the realm of sales and marketing, exploring fresh perspectives and strategies. From online networking buzz to dissecting the nuances between sales and marketing, they navigate the evolving landscape of digital engagement.
Drawing on analogies and real-world experiences, they explore the symbiotic relationship between these essential business functions. Delving into the concept of leads, they redefine them as relationship opportunities, stressing the significance of personal connections and tailored approaches. From nurturing existing leads to empowering teams for growth, Veronica and Jillian offer actionable insights for businesses navigating the digital transformation era.
*Veronica & Jillian are teaming up to offer live brainstorming sessions for listeners of this podcast. Listen until the end of this episode for more details. Here is the link you'd like to apply.
People & Resources Mentioned in This Episode
About Veronica Guguian
- Website: https://spinideas.nl/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/veronica-guguian
About Jillian Vorce
- Website: https://thejilliangroup.com/better
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillianvorce
Credits
- Music Composed by BeeLa Music
- Voiceover by Amanda Balagur
Jillian Vorce: Hello, and welcome to episode 28 of creative collaboration conversations with Veronica and Jillian. And in today's episode, we are going to revisit a previous episode, number six, which is the second most frequently downloaded episode that we've done so far about sales and marketing miscues and opportunities. So, we're going to dig into that and explore some other areas that we didn't touch on in our previous episode. But before we go any further, let's stop, say hello good morning to Veronica, and do a check-in. How are you?
Veronica Guguian: Hello. Good morning, Jillian, and good morning, everyone. I'm good. A little bit cold, even if we are almost springtime, but Amsterdam weather is not catching up with the memo yet.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah.
Veronica Guguian: So, trying to keep warm and be productive. But how are you? You just had your Dutch week. How is your Dutch?
Jillian Vorce: I did my Dutch immersion. Yeah, I'm getting there. It will be a long process, but it was very humbling and, I think, important. I think as we get older, it can be more challenging to learn new things. I think we can have more rigid thinking, or just that word head junk can be a challenge, or at least that's my experience. So, I'm focusing on persevering so that I can eventually achieve Dutch fluency. That's my goal. But I did that. Yeah. But quick note, because I always have random facts about random things and so you just open the door. So, I'm going to share one. So, talking about the weather here. So, I was just reading that. February this month in the Netherlands, the average temperature was two times around. Yeah, it was around eight Celsius. And the typical average is about four.
Jillian Vorce: So, yeah, we doubled the average temperature in February.
Veronica Guguian: So we should stop complaining.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah.
Veronica Guguian: But I think the issue is you have a big difference between day and night and that you feel it. And I have a dog, so I do walk my dog in the morning when it's still cold.
Jillian Vorce: At least it's not dark. The light is like, what a difference. Exactly.
Veronica Guguian: And I think next month we are changing the hour. Was it?
Jillian Vorce: Yes, it is. I believe it is March, daylight saving time.
Veronica Guguian: But yeah, we have to make do. And regardless, actually, I do have a similar experience, and I'm starting to think until we'll not be surrounded only by Dutch people that actually speak Dutch to us and answer in Dutch, proficiency will not really increase. But true, coming back to our topic of today, so it's nice to see. And actually it's a confirmation also with the online networking, with the spin events every single time where we add the word sales into the combination or strategic partnerships or people become much more aware and more interested. So it's very, from a statistical point of view, it's very nice to see. Okay, so what do people search for? What are they interested in?
Veronica Guguian: Very curious to see how they follow up as well and if they really understand the difference between marketing and sales and application because they kept on discussing this topic. How do you want to start it?
Jillian Vorce: So I have a great little. I'm not sure what to call it; I guess a little blurb that a colleague, kind of a colleague friend of mine whom I haven't seen in many years. But in any case, we've stayed in touch here and there, and he and I chatted a bit about this a while back, and so I just have a little bit about what he had to say about this. So, he was involved with Tumblr. I don't know if you know, the social networking, the microblogging platform, Tumblr. So I met him when he was originally with Tumblr, but he's been a business, sales, and marketing storyteller for 25-plus years. He's very seasoned, quite had a great career, and he's a super nice guy. His name is Michael.
Jillian Vorce: So I'll put a link to his LinkedIn profile at the end, but I just think it's so succinct, and it's kind of analogy-heavy, but I think it really does a great job. And probably people have heard some of these analogies, but in any case, just a couple sentences. So here we go. The difference between sales and marketing is the difference between how a chicken and a pig view a plate of ham and eggs. The chicken or marketer is okay with it because she can always make another egg. The pig or seller is not okay with it because one of his friends had to die to make that breakfast. This is to say that sales is the frontline. Army marketing is the general on the hill directing troops, but they don't have the same risks.
Jillian Vorce: And if the war fails, it's because they haven't been in sync. The best marketers are ones who have actually sold something and see how messaging and campaigns lead to results and not just another egg. Both can be held responsible in the end. Similarly, a house cat and an outdoor cat are like marketers and sellers. The house cat is protected and safe and gets a steady bowl of food. The outdoor cat has some of that but gets to go outside and hunt for more. It's dangerous. And the outdoor cat may not live as long, but it has greater freedom. So whether you're a pig, a soldier, or an outdoor cat, you are at a greater risk because the stakes are higher, but so are the rewards and the freedom. So that's courtesy of Michael.
Jillian Vorce: So we'll put a link, as I said, to his LinkedIn profile in the show notes, but I thought that was really interesting. And so, I'm curious if you pick up on anything about what his take on it is, especially in regard to what our previous conversations have been about this topic. So what do you think?
Veronica Guguian: What jumped into, by the way? I do like them, and it's the first time I like them. So thank you. With analogy, maybe sales are having more fun because they're going there and testing different things, and they can play around with the message. Or actually, I think the biggest advantage they have is that they go directly to the source, let's say. So they really send the customer. But my personal philosophy and view on marketing and sales are kind of not similar. I agree they need to work together, but I do see that, maybe because I did sales as well, but I do see the role of the market here slightly different. So the market here needs to be there on the front line together with the pig, the soldier, yeah.
Veronica Guguian: The wild cat or the outdoor cat to understand what the customer does and needs to go back and adapt everything online, especially now when we are living more in a digital world than a real world if I can say it like that. So, a lot of things are happening online before you actually have the chance to go and sell or to be there. And a lot of the sales process and the buying process changed so much in the last years and, especially after the pandemic and even before that. So you still need the salesperson. And for me, the salesperson will be the one that will actually ask the question, do you want to buy it? Shall we sign the contract now? Should we get this going?
Veronica Guguian: Whereas the marketeer has to prepare the buyer and has to understand the needs and what they want and to start the dialogue, to start the conversation and to build that relationship. So for me, it's very hard to take one out of the context and especially in this world, that everything moves towards digital, and we are in a digital transformation that started years ago and now it's moving further and further. So it was true some time ago, but I think it's slightly changing.
Jillian Vorce: And you can't without the other, though, for sure. It's like, as you were describing that the analogy that came to mind for me, I had a very kind of vivid image, is the marketer is responsible for basically setting the table. The table set. But then the salesperson or entity comes in and presents the course. Like, here's the meal. And it looks so amazing and they get to feed. But it's like.
Veronica Guguian: One experience is not the same if you don't have one or the other. So you can have a great table, but if no one is actually introducing the main dish, what's the point? And if you have a great main dish, but if you don't really present it properly, you'll enjoy it, but not as much, maybe. No, I think because you don't like the environment.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, for sure. I agree. These two things are, as we've talked about quite a bit, these two things must be in sync. They must be kind of in lockstep and kind of heavy. It's like a very symbiotic relationship between these two functions. So last time in episode six, we also touched on marketing qualified leads and sales qualified leads. We didn't talk too much about it. So I thought we could at least revisit that for a few moments to see if there are other things that we could add or any other ideas or experiences, thoughts about that. I don't know if you happen to utilize this terminology or do you include this type of, I guess, service or this type of deliverable? When you're working with clients, do you get into this, or do you call it something different or just basically? Yeah.
Jillian Vorce: What do you got?
Veronica Guguian: Tell me your experience depends on the client handling this and what they're looking for. And some prefer to identify their own language or their own internal systems and depends a little bit on the client. But we do utilize marketing funnels, for example, the terminology and how we create them. And from that you actually get leads. But those are actually marketing leads. They are marketing leads, but those actually. I don't really like calling them leads because it sounds very transactional. Let's say those people can be your customers. So they are customers. It's your audience that is actually interested in you. So you have already started building a relationship with them and then you need to see what's the next step.
Veronica Guguian: Do you have that conversation and you move from the stage of a lead or someone interested in your service, product, whatever you are selling, can that go further and become a client? But one can go without the other because marketing is nurturing that interest, that curiosity, and starts building that relationship. But again, you do need that. Yes. At the end of the bottom of the page, that is. Yes, I do.
Jillian Vorce: Right.
Veronica Guguian: And that one. Yeah.
Jillian Vorce: No, I think that's the point. Right. There that a lot of businesses overlook or underestimate or just flat out miss is they think that because somebody has come through their marketing funnel that all leads are created equal and that they can, and they either neglect to, or whatever word we want to use to soften that up. I guess to have any step or any filtration mechanism in place to help identify kind of would be nice, but actually can. Like are these leads qualified? Do they have the budget? What's their time frame? All of these things that can indicate whether or not they are suitable to become a client or not. And so I think that piece is, there's a big disconnect.
Veronica Guguian: That's the problem because at least for the smaller companies, the micro small companies that I work with, not all of them, just to be very clear, but from my experience, the majority are afraid to actually pick up the phone and ask them if they want it or not? Yeah, they invest in marketing and I see it as. What's the right word? I'm looking here for them. Marketing should be sales, whereas marketing provides all the leads. But you still need to do the sell part. You still need to actually have that conversation to qualify. Exactly what you said. Is that a yes now? Is that maybe in the future or. It's just I'm curious and I like what you're doing, but I will never pay for your services. So that will make a big difference.
Veronica Guguian: And actually all of these three answers are amazing for you because if it's a step, you go ahead. If it's a maybe then you have a next step with that person. And if I will never be your client, but I love what you're doing, that's a great ambassador for your brand. So just build a different type of relationship. Make them your ambassador or strategic partnership wherever you call them in your organization and ask them to promote your services. Give them something in exchange for that and still you are aiming. And even if some. No, actually I don't want to hear from you or work with you any longer. That is still an amazing thing to have a conversation with because you understand why not what they like, something related to you as a company and your services or maybe something very personal to that particular company.
Jillian Vorce: But.
Veronica Guguian: There'S no bad information in the end.
Jillian Vorce: Two quick things, just about that. So first, just a kind of thought that came to mind as far as at least how I would approach it. Just for consideration for the business owners that are apprehensive to do sales or to pick up the phone or any of. I think there's no substitute for that. But I think sometimes meeting people where they're at and helping them to develop that skill along the way can be more productive in the long run. Right. About developing that muscle. Right. So one potential idea is to build into their kind of process. Here I go again with the process. Talk to build into it, whatever the point. Like that point is where a decision could then be made to proceed or not.
Jillian Vorce: So whatever the step is, if it is some sort of a Zoom meeting, or if it's a webinar, or if it's whatever the thing is that they had that touch point, there could be an automated follow up afterwards to that person in giving them those three buckets. Where are we at? Do you want to proceed? And if so, click the button and schedule a time for our next sales call kind of thing. You don't call it that to a prospect, but that kind of thing. Or in the middle is, not right now. I've got some other things I need to do. And then the other option is, no, thank you, I don't need it. And with the no, thank you could also offer, like, would you spend 15 minutes with me to tell me why? But most likely people may do that.
Jillian Vorce: So I guess if you don't ask, it's a no.
Veronica Guguian: You never know.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah. Alternatively, you can just ask them to answer two questions or one question survey and just see if they will do one of those two things. So you can get some insights from that. But the middle category, the people that are not ready to buy but not ready to say no either, are the people that is really, I think, also a missed opportunity because this is where you can spend a day or whatever, get together with your team and think through. Get your sales and marketing people together to think through.
Veronica Guguian: Okay.
Jillian Vorce: For this type of prospect, what are the things about our product or service or company, whatever, that are useful to them? What are the things, the questions that they have, the faqs, what are the things that might be holding them back? What are the things that they should be asking themselves but don't know about yet, or et cetera? What are the things that might happen if they don't use your product or service or whatever in kind of building that content into another kind of follow up sequence? And it's just to continue to add value to those people through a nurturing campaign.
Jillian Vorce: I think that a lot of, I'll just say people, companies, whichever they think of a nurturing campaign for clients or customers, but they don't as often think of a nurturing campaign for people that are still in the funnel and they're just not ready yet. And companies are too quick to let it go. They just don't follow up. And then they think, I don't want to bother them. It's not that. So even if you just do this is why I think in general, most businesses, it's not really a marketing problem. Most businesses don't have a lead problem. Most businesses have a process problem. Yeah, it's a sales problem, but getting to the sales, there can be a sales problem, but the connection point in between and what are we doing?
Jillian Vorce: And a lot of people have too many holes and they're just letting all their resources be depleted and just kind of fill through the holes. Yeah. So I think that this is a great place to just do better, be more efficient, and be sustainable with what you already have. I think most businesses have a sufficient amount of opportunities already. It's just doing right by the opportunities that they have and being strategic about them and helpful and thinking about it in terms of being helpful and providing service as opposed to making a sale, perhaps.
Veronica Guguian: And I completely agree with you, instead of focusing on generating new leads, you should focus on the existing ones. And actually in sales, like any good salesperson will tell you, forget about the yes or the no's focus on, that's actually where you can work with them and you have them, you can convert them. And we all know it's easier to actually upscale an existing client or a former client to get him back on board than to actually get new clients. In terms of resources that you put at their disposal and everything.
Jillian Vorce: Absolutely.
Veronica Guguian: You already nurtured these maybes, let's call them maybes. So why spend time and energy creating a new campaign from zero for new people when you can just address them? And depending here, actually it depends on the size of the company and what you're selling. Because if you're a small company, sometimes it makes more sense to pick up the phone and speak with this. If you have ten people that are a maybe, and if your service is very much personal and based on relationship, that personal touch, that conversation can actually determine if that maybe will become a yes or a no. And it's a difference when we are talking about big volumes where definitely you need a process in place, as you described it, to actually get them closer and to see what actually is closer to a yes or a no.
Veronica Guguian: Or maybe it's just you don't know what it is. From my experience, a lot of times it's actually a matter of cash flow, for example, and they can become your client if you just play with the payment terms or you make small adjustments. So it's not even about the process, it's not about the service. It's just purely, I can't afford that much at the beginning, or I need to grow with you, or we need to split the payments differently. As long as you have what you need to remember when you have these conversations, you do need to have a list with some qualifying questions that will help you write the conversation and to understand are you really interested. If you're not interested, what's the reason? And then to rephrase.
Veronica Guguian: Okay, so in case, if they say they're not booking because they don't have the budget, a very easy way to really qualify is. So if I understand correctly, if you would have the budget, you would sign the contract with me today. And if they know, then you identify the real cause. If they say yes, then it's very clear what the issue is. But you do need to basically, like a detective, go from one to another and figure out what the real issue is. And because they will never really tell you, not even the Netherlands, when they say they are very direct.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, no, absolutely. And it just reminded me of many years ago. Anyway, long story, but we'll just cut to the chase. I did a podcast interview about the process that I used, which was really a kind of blended marketing and sales approach. What this process was that helped me to grow the 1.0 version of my company. It's on the agents of change podcast. I'll include the link in the show notes, but it could be helpful for people, especially those who are running relationship-oriented businesses or maybe that feel like they don't want to do sales, they don't want to kind of get into that realm. This approach might be more comfortable. It's based on, it's being very heavily transparent and very collaborative. And so, yeah, this previous podcast episode might be of use or helpful to people, so include that link.
Jillian Vorce: So you were just talking as you were talking. I also thought about account-based marketing. And so certainly there's different approaches with everything, if it's a micro business or a smaller business, et cetera. So depending on the size and the industry, et cetera. But account based marketing, I felt like that's relevant in this conversation, so I thought I'd bring it up just. Yeah, because it's relevant to see if you have gone there. Have you looked at any of those platforms? Have you had experience with any of them? Have you used this or not really? Yeah. What say you? Yeah, there's a whole bunch like demand based propensity zoom info bunch, and it's that type of idea. It's like focusing on a set of target accounts in a particular market. So it is more kind of relationship oriented.
Jillian Vorce: Although ironically most of these platforms are heavily tech-based or tech driven. But it is that idea. So I just was curious. It's kind of a way to bring the sales and marketing together per se, or at least.
Veronica Guguian: Yeah, I would say it depends. As you said, how do you implement it and how personalized do you make it? Because now you also see a lot of discussion about omni channels and personalized marketing use, AI and everything. But if you really read what they are sending it is the same thing, but probably including one or two words that make it more personalized. But still, it's not the same as speaking with a person. So I do believe definitely it's helping, but will not replace the one on one conversation, not at this point.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, I think these are like more volume-oriented to help kind of plant seeds in a very targeted area.
Veronica Guguian: I was about to specify that. So again, it depends a lot on the type of business that you're running, because if you're running with large volumes, then you need that because otherwise it's impossible to provide the amount of leads you need. But if you are a small business, it could probably be a good start. But that will not exclude the last part in my perspective, if you really want to make it a personalized service and just have that your dna implemented there. Yeah, I agree to work with smaller companies. So that's why my focus is more towards this part of making it personalized and making it yours. But the time is limited.
Jillian Vorce: Okay, so quick question then in terms of team structure. And again, as always, you could answer this however you see fit, if you want to talk about your own company and how you see it, or your clients, or just in general how you see how to approach or how to think about team structure in terms of trying to grow a company with respect to these two functions of sales and marketing.
Veronica Guguian: Again, depends on the size of the company. And you could have actually also, I think we should connect the operational side here because you do need the marketing, you do need the operation that is helping you implement and especially in the bigger processes, and you do need the sales in the smaller companies. Sometimes you have one person doing everything or having help on the operational side. But what I'm noticing, the marketing essence, they are quite connected. And I have to say that applies also in my company. So I try to extend at a specific point and I realize it's not really working. What is working for me are the introductions and referrals. This is why we actually use the spin network extension chroma section that goes with LinkedIn. And basically we are introduced to hot leads every day.
Veronica Guguian: Or we can ask introductions and we can start the sales process, if you want to call it like that, or marketing process, because we can have the one one that can either be partners or leads or just interesting conversations that you want to follow up later because you never know if they partner in one of the projects or what is happening. So it kind of depends. But for the small businesses, what I'm learning, especially the ones that the services, you are providing a service and not a product. So you know how personality dictates basically everything. It's very hard to externalize or to split.
Jillian Vorce: Right.
Veronica Guguian: You could actually have someone else doing the marketing and this is what I'm noticing. But you do need to be the one having the last conversation with the client, especially if your service or is more it oriented, for example, where you need to understand and to get all the small details that maybe another person in the team will not be able to do that and you do need the negotiation skills and you are the only one capable to say, yes, I can actually split the where you need to be flexible with the clients. So what I noticed, what is the easiest to externalize is actually marketing, operations, administration. But the sales, the final sales actually should be in house and should be with the owner, funny enough. Or hire someone that is working very closely with the owner. How about you? What's your experience?
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, so one thing, I was just having a conversation recently with a social media service company based in the US that services enterprise level clients. We're talking about opportunities to grow the business. And so it's kind of a blend of the sales and marketing idea. So currently the CEO is the one that's out on the stages everywhere, the face of the company, and so is also of sales. However, in our conversation, we talked about, because it's a remote business, we talked about people and it kind of blends with also capacity building with your own existing team and opportunities to grow by growing your team's skill set. Right.
Jillian Vorce: And so we talked about identifying people on her team that have the desire and the kind of the chops to do more and to develop their careers further and doing that internally as opposed to having them look external and leave. So we talked about how picking a couple of people on her team in target locations target regions and identifying opportunities for them to do, starting off small scale, but speaking engagements to represent as a way to really start to accelerate the growth of not only the team, but also the footprint, the visibility, the kind of brand recognition. And so it's a different approach per se, but that's just kind of food for thought, because then it kind of empowers other people on the team to be on the front line.
Jillian Vorce: And so that might not necessarily be them closing sales per se, but it definitely gets them closer to feeling comfortable in that arena. And also for the business owner, it's a way, kind of a strategy for the business owner to also kind of warm up to the idea of other people representing their company, because that is one of the cruxes that actually inhibit growth for some companies, because they want to own too much of it. They hold onto it too tightly and don't create enough space for it to breathe and allow other people to come in. And that's really when the magic can happen. So that's one story related to that. And then I had a conversation. Go ahead. Sorry.
Veronica Guguian: So I want to jump into this one, but I agree with you. And actually that depends on the stage of growth there, because always when the business is very small, you're going to have that moment, and I must admit, I had it as well, is my baby. Can I actually leave it with someone else? And it's basically a mental jump that you need to take and trust someone else with your business. And that will happen the moment you're able to put on paper and create a strategy and to actually don't do it following your gut. Let's see what is happening. So basically you stop playing and you start properly running a business, and then you'll feel comfortable to externalize. But another thing happens here, it depends on the size of the business, because what you described, those are huge companies.
Veronica Guguian: And basically the small companies are doing exactly the same thing, like going and speaking. But the moment you start going after 50 employees, let's say things are changing, and then you do need more people to go because everything is growing exponentially. So the more people are able to be on stages and speak about it, the more people you are able to reach.
Jillian Vorce: I think even companies with around maybe ten or so people are suitable for this. I think it doesn't have to just be so.
Veronica Guguian: What I'm noticing, it depends on their expertise and their personalities, because some people are just refusing to be the front line and speak, even if they're amazing. But you just need to have as you said the right mix in the team for them to go and do that. And let's be honest, when you're creating a team, you don't want all of them to want to be in the front line, because then who's behind running the. So you do need a mixture between the front and the back, like the general and the soldier. Actually, any business needs a mixture of these two types and in between a couple of them. Because if everyone wants to be there and speak, then who's behind running the show? You need a balance between this in my perspective.
Jillian Vorce: So I don't know any other thoughts that come up about sales and marketing or any.
Veronica Guguian: You had an idea, but I just want to add to this.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, so the other one was just another business I was speaking with yesterday, based in the UK, another female CEO. Amazing business, amazing business career, but has a company that's now about ten months old and she's preparing to go away for a couple of weeks and have her team run things. And we talked about this very idea, about the different ideas about building a business. And for some people, they build the business around their own personality and they want to have them be the center of it. And for other people, they want to get out from that and have the business run independent of them. So I think it's different headsets in the way that we see business and the way our lifestyles where we're at, a lot of factors that go into that.
Jillian Vorce: And I think for a lot of people, it's just also thinking about what is possible. It's easy for a micro business to think, oh, it's just me, and maybe I have my one first part time person or something like that, how could I possibly get there? But every business has the potential to grow further, if that's the intention. And growing can also create greater impact, influencing more people through your team, also the customers and clients, et cetera. But it's just a different way to approach it. And so she was saying that she presently is the lead for sales, like she does the biz dev as the CEO, which is very typical.
Jillian Vorce: But we also talked about being the next big piece of beginning to kind of offload some of that and delegate some of those pieces and build those strengths within the team so that it is not dependent upon her. And that's something that I can relate with. And when I built the 1.0 version of my company, that was the point when I realized I got really worried about whether or not what I was doing was sustainable or not. Because when I reached 30 people on the team. It was like giving me panic attacks about whether or not my business development strategy was sustainable. Because it was all based on me in my own network and networking and building relationships. And I just felt like that's not secure enough. There needs to be more to it than just that.
Jillian Vorce: But in any case, yeah, those are the couple of ideas that I had.
Veronica Guguian: I agree with what you said, but here again, some things that we need to consider is your super skill is actually networking and building relationships and creating that infrastructure. So funny enough actually for you being the only sales power actually worked and could work, but you have a personality, and also you need to consider how you're closing contracts. Because if you just have a client that is a one month client and then he leaves and you need a very high…
Jillian Vorce: Volume.
Veronica Guguian: Volume. Thank you. Then you need to put more focus on sales. However, if the business structure, then you had it the same and my business is the same, like we are having long-term relationships with our customers, then the volume is lower than you need and actually the capacity of how many people you can serve properly is lower. That doesn't mean you can't grow, but you can't really grow in a good way overnight. So you need a period of time to be able to grow and to.
Jillian Vorce: Actually, yeah, you need a growth strategy. Exactly.
Veronica Guguian: You need a growth strategy and you need to make it to do it and implement it and do it in a smart way for it to actually work. So I think it's a very complex process that we can't really simplify. But you said something that actually makes perfect sense, how everything starts. It's actually, you need to make a decision, how big do you want your company to be? And that doesn't mean that decision, it's forever. You just make a decision for a year or half a year, like how much do you want to grow in that half a year or that year? And what are the capacities?
Veronica Guguian: Or if you decide in two years I want to double my sales and my team, then, you know, when you start working towards that slowly, because finding the resources, implementing the processes, doing the operational changes that you need to do is not rock and science. But it's not that easy either, because everything, it takes time and it takes time for you to adapt to the change as well. So it takes time for the team to adapt to the change and for everyone to understand it. So, the bottom line actually depends. Everything depends on what do you actually want and then you are able to plan accordingly. And if you just want to be a small business and just have enough money to, I don't know, leave or not even leave. Just, it's a hobby, then it doesn't make sense for you to externalize sales.
Veronica Guguian: Just keep it small and maybe get someone to help you implement it. But if you want to have a higher impact, as you said, and you want to double your sales, then it's impossible to keep it with you. Or you keep the sales with you. But you need to externalize. Like not externalizing. You need someone else who does the rest. Because the only thing we are sure of is we have 24 hours in a day, right?
Jillian Vorce: That's right.
Veronica Guguian: Everything depends on what you want, bottom line, and this, why also in the spin methodology, what is the main focus is what is your goal? Because that will dictate, besides who you are and the audience, that will dictate the strategy and everything that you do around.
Jillian Vorce: For sure. So, last closing thought about the topic, or you feel like? I feel like, yeah. So my closing thought is kind of with a nod to the folks that you were referencing that sometimes are apprehensive to put on the sales hat is to, yeah, don't be afraid to ask for the sale or just period. Be afraid and do it anyway. Ask for the sale. Right. Ask for it, and just let people know how you can help them and what you're focused on, how you can help them, and what you can do for them. And so with that, I will just say, if you're interested in growth strategy, then hit me up. I'd love to have that conversation with you because that happens to be something that I am adapted to working with. I really enjoy it. That's my jam. So, growth strategy, let me know.
Jillian Vorce: So with that, let's put a fork.
Veronica Guguian: In episode, what, 20? Do we have a big announcement because in one month time or two months time, we are launching a new format. So we do have a surprise for our listeners. And if everyone remembers, we had. And Gideon, maybe you can help me with the number of the episodes we did. An audit to your business and an audit to my business.
Jillian Vorce: Episode eleven and 13.
Veronica Guguian: Thank you. I always can count on you. And because we had very good reactions to those, we decided, how about we do that to our listeners as well? So if you are interested and courageous enough to join us in a podcast where the two of us will basically, you can pick our brains and us providing advice on your business, we're going to link different forms, like just one form actually, at the end of this episode, and you'll have the chance to be here with us and have a discussion with us.
Jillian Vorce: Perfect. So more info to come and look in the show notes for the application link.
Veronica Guguian: To see who will be courageous enough. Thank you, everyone.
Jillian Vorce: Cheers. Bye.