In this episode, Veronica Guguian and Jillian Vorce emphasize the power of networking and building relationships in their own work and ask each other how they learned to network.
Welcome to episode 2 of Creative Conversation: Conversations with Veronica and Jillian.
Jillian had a lightbulb moment that led her to start her own business at the age of 22. She realized the importance of how she presented herself and actively listening in networking situations. By genuinely caring about people and building relationships, she was able to grow her network and create opportunities for herself.
Veronica Guguian relates to Jillian's approach of networking without an agenda and emphasizes the need to maintain relationships. Both speakers believe that being curious, actively listening, and finding common ground are key aspects of successful networking.
They also highlight the value of organic connections, both within and outside their industries. Veronica emphasizes the significance of connecting with people beyond just potential prospects or clients, including collaborators and former clients.
The conversation concludes with a discussion about being proactive in building relationships rather than waiting until a position of need arises. They consider engaging their audience in a panel or live stream to further explore different approaches to networking.
People & Resources Mentioned During This Episode
- This article by @ChrisBrogan which categorizes people's approaches to networking into three buckets.
- This company, GSES-System and it's founder, Kelly Ruigrok
- Jillian's TEDx, The Lens of Connectivity
- Amsterdam American Business Club
About Veronica Guguian
- Website: https://spinideas.nl/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/veronica-guguian
About Jillian Vorce
- Website: https://thejilliangroup.com
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillianvorce
Credits:
-Music Composed by: BeeLa Music
-Voiceover by Amanda Balagur
Hello everyone, and welcome to episode two of creative collaboration conversations with Veronica and Jillian. And I'm Veronica. And I'm here with my co-host, Jillian. Hello.
And today we're going to talk about probably one of our favorite joint subjects, which is the power of networking.
And I think that's the main thing that we have in common.
That's why we're here. Right? So before we do, let's start off the way we always do in all of our episodes with our fun facts. So I don't know, why don't you go first? Any fun facts to share today?
I'm not sure if it's necessarily a fun fact, but I think it will be good for everyone to know how we spend our time. I think it was like half an hour before we actually started recording the questions that we are asking ourselves and I do want to share this because it's real. And for everyone who is considering actually doing a podcast or recording, collaboration will be good because hey, we are marketeers and we are actually spending our days advising people on how to prepare for podcasts, recordings, videos. And I know I'm doing it and I know you're doing it, but you know what is very funny? When we have to do it, we are actually the clients. Yes, not the clients. And we go through the same things even if we do know.
And I find it so easy to advise someone what to do so that we spend half an hour wondering how we should speak, how to present ourselves.
I think it's really funny because it reminds me there's one thing about knowing how to do something, but then there's another thing about doing it right. And I find it to be so much easier to help somebody else with their business or to do something that they're working on, as opposed to when it's my turn, it's like, oh, then they have to be super focused. It's a different experience. So I think I appreciate you kind of pulling back the curtain and letting all of our millions of listeners and viewers know. Yeah, we're working on this on the fly. So cool.
But I do want to bring this because the purpose of our conversations is to have a real conversation, to be honest, and to bring you what is happening behind the curtain. Yeah, we are good at advising other people and it's way easier but when you are doing it, different emotions come into place. Sometimes insecurity is like what's the best option? There are so many ways to do one thing right. So my point is just don't be afraid and go ahead and do it. How about you Jillian, what's your fun?
My fun fact is kind of out in left field from that but I kind of pull from the thread of the power of networking and I will say for me networking the way I understand and kind of think about networking is really about building relationships. And so my fun fact is a little story about my first best friend who was an older man in my neighborhood I met when I was a kid. He was never married, had no children, and lived in the same house his whole life, the house where his mother, father, and sister all died. So he was just this older man and I befriended him and he became like my grandfather of sorts and then he taught me how to drive a car when I was seven.
So I used to get home from school, get off the bus, and go over to Henry's house and visit with him and help do chores, and rake leaves. And then eventually, I learned how to drive a car in a cemetery. And years later, that's now where he's buried, so it was full circle. But by the time I was eight, we would go drive to the bakery and things and run errands after school because he didn't have anybody else to drive him around, and his vision and reflexes were getting a little bit slower. So for me, it's like that experience. I don't know if it's a fun fact. It's a little strange, a little wild, a little unbelievable, but it also was a very influential relationship in my life, so I kind of hold that one near and dear.
So that's my fun fact abbreviated story of Henry.
I'm getting goosebumps listening to this story, and I know we need to change from the fun fact to something personal about us because it's much more appropriate.
I was thinking, like, is that fun? It's a little fun fact. I'm not sure.
Yeah, maybe a fun “moment” is more appropriate.
Yeah. There we go; there's my attempt at a fun fact. I'm not sure if it's really a "fun" fact, maybe I'm not a fun person.
Yeah, it's a beautiful story, and I love wow. You were able to drive at seven?
Yeah, well, when I was seven it was in the cemetery, so it's like, very slow right forward. And then I learned how to back up, but the car didn't have power steering. It was an automatic, but it didn't have power steering. And then I had pillows. He taught me how to sew on those old Singer sewing machines. So I would rake up pine needles, and we'd use the pine needles to make pillows. And then that's what I sat on and put behind me in the seat. And we would go driving at the cemetery forwards and backward. And then eventually he would let me drive home and then drive in the neighborhood. And I just got better and more comfortable with it. So then it just became like what I did. By the time yeah, I was just driving him around.
We just ran errands, and we never really thought about it. It's like, at 13, I was driving on the freeway. I should probably stop now. But anyway, that happened. Yeah.
Curious. Did never, ever the police stop you, too. Nothing.
No. You just act as if.
I love that.
Yeah. Anyhow, I'm not sure how that applies to business if it does act as if. Maybe.
But it is, like I said, a relationship - it's all about service. Relationships and service. For me, it was a function of service, providing service to Henry because he needed somebody to bring him to the bakery or to go and you.
Never know what you're learning.
Yeah, exactly. Anyhow, how's your week been? How are things going? Have you had any new discoveries or met anybody interesting or any new stuff happening? Any ideas, things? Tell me what's been going on.
I'm getting ready for my holiday, actually. So that's exciting but exhausting at the same time, because as an entrepreneur, before going on holiday, you need to basically work beforehand to help cover that period and also make sure when you're coming, you'll not be overwhelmed with work. It was funny because I had a meeting before our recording with a client, and we were discussing holidays, and discussing, as an entrepreneur, what happens to you when you're going on holiday. And we're actually going to launch a series of social media posts on this. But the question that came up, and I'm very curious to hear from our listeners if there are any, is when you're going on a holiday, as an entrepreneur, are you actually going on a holiday?
Are you able to stop your brain and be like, I'm going to go and visit my family, be there present, or are you still checking your emails? Are you still taking things? Are you still working? Are you still following up on different projects? Even if you have a team doing that? I'm very curious because I realized I'm on holiday, but I actually have a meeting scheduled. I said I was going to double-check a couple of things and I realized it will not be a proper holiday. So I'm thinking I need to go and actually move that meeting. Let's see, worst-case scenario, have one or probably two meetings. How do you do it? Are you really on holiday?
I actually think this is an excellent topic that we should dig into in a future episode because right away I immediately think of the process. I wonder what people are doing to prepare to go on holiday? Right, so what is the preparation like? All the things like the tech and the tools you can use, how to prepare your team clients, all of that stuff. And then there's being on holiday in the decisions to be made about, are you going to check emails, are you going to check social? And where do you draw that line? And then there's the reentry. So how to kind of strategically handle the reentry. So I feel like we should add that to our list as a follow-up. Yeah, go ahead.
All of that. Actually, I do have a process and I have all of that in place. But see, the problem is the mindset, actually.
Yeah, that's a big part of it. So I think hold on to your process because I want to chat about that. Probably selfishly because I'm actually not going on holiday soon, but we're preparing now for December and we'll be away for three weeks, maybe four, not sure how long. Yeah, so trying to work on that in a very different time zone and whatnot and deciding if we're going to work some while we're away because it's so long or not and trying to think about being away for a long stretch anyway. So maybe that's like a little Caesar. Yeah, we can come back to that.
Comments or let us know, send us a message. Would that be something of interest to you, our audience? I know you're quite techy, more than me at some point. So did you discover a new tool this week or what happened?
I did. I am excited. And it's a tool with an amazing person attached to it. So I went to a conference the other day, a sustainability conference, and met this incredibly dynamic woman who blew my mind. And I absolutely don't say that often, but what she has been able to build and then frankly, seeing her own the stage amidst the sea of mostly the typical kind of older white men situation, she rocked it and it's her company and the way they brought this event together and what she's been able to accomplish. Yeah, she talked about how she became a mom in 2016 and realized that she needed to do something and wanted to change the world and make it better for her child. And so she got started and that story resonated with me so much because I'm just four years behind her.
Her child was born in 2020 and it was a giant wake-up call. So, without further ado, it's the global sustainable enterprise system. It's a sustainability platform that she's integrated, or she and her team, like an incredible team, have integrated somewhere like 500+ different languages and formats and all the stuff from all over the world to integrate it. So there's a unified language and measuring system for sustainability. So it's really amazing what she's been able to do largely through partnerships. Anyway, it's GSES- system.com Really incredible.
Definitely, I need to look into that. We could talk about discoveries and what happened. That's different podcasts because sure, I know. But coming back to today's topic, actually, it's the power of networking. And this is one of the elements that brought us together. Actually, this is how we reach out to each other because also, according to our values, building relationships instead of going and selling is what drives us. This is how we conduct business and this is how we connect people and this is how we do everything, basically.
Yes.
How did you learn how to network?
So, for me, I started my first business well, let me say it like this. Years back, I caught an interview that Oprah Winfrey was doing back when she had her show with this guy named Robert Kiyosaki and he was talking about business ownership and something about the way he was talking about it just resonated with me and it was as if he was speaking directly to me. So I walked over to the TV and held the ears of the TV and I was like, wow. I didn't know a lot of business owners at the time, so it was like a light went on for me. And so that began my journey of wanting to start a business. And so I did a lot of different things, et cetera.
Within a year or two, actually, within a year I had my first business. And so there I was, like 20 years old or something, realizing that I didn't have a lot to offer in the way of business acumen, and resources really, I didn't have much to offer in the conventional sense. So what I would do is there are two things that I learned.
Number one, being a younger female, I recognized that the way I portrayed myself, the way I carried myself, the way I dressed, and everything else would influence the way I was treated and the way people saw me. So I was very particular about what I would wear and how I would dress, et cetera, and how I would stand, like my posture, all of those things. The second thing I did was this networking bit.
But at the time I didn't really know that's what it was. I just realized that I could listen, actually listen to any events I was in any environment, business environment. I would listen, like active listening, actively listen, active listening, whatever, and pay attention to what they were saying and begin to remember it and I would begin to say I felt like everybody else knew everything and I knew nothing. So I had this bias or this false idea of what everybody else had. Like everybody else knew more than me. So eventually I would ask, oh, I'd hear somebody talking about some project or some idea and I would say, oh, do you know Roseanne? Roseanne is doing something? And I began to realize that they didn't because I realized a very important lesson.
I feel that one of the foundational pieces of networking is that most people spend most of their time talking. Most people are not present or aware or listening to other people, let alone actively listening. So like, a huge tip, just by actively listening you automatically stand out. And I can almost guarantee you people will like you just by actively listening because they will be able to feel that you're present, they'll feel that you're paying attention. And it's very luxuriating for people. So in any case, I did that and by just starting to connect dots with people, my value began to increase. And next thing you know, I was becoming like a hub of connections. And so I continued to do that and build more and more relationships. And so this is what influenced the way I see networking.
For me, every relationship I built was like. An asset like a seed that I was planting. But it was 100% to nurture those seeds to see what would grow so I could create introductions for other people and so just make my network stronger and more collaborative. I never built a relationship or never met somebody just to try to sell them. There was never a transactional piece because for me, even at 20 years old, 21, when I was starting this, my thought was I'm going to spend time building a relationship. Like I care about the person. I don't want it to be just based on whatever widget I'm selling at the time. I want to have this relationship transcend any career situation. So that was the attitude that I kind of operated with.
In doing so I ended up going from zero network to hundreds and then thousands of relationships. And then yeah, I feel like the punctuation on that is eventually the universe decided, okay, now it's time for you to start your consulting agency. So that network started feeding me business faster and so that's how I was able to grow my agency so quickly in the first twelve to 24 months. And then the other piece I'll just throw in over those years as well. I want to say every good thing that's ever happened to me. It's like every single amazing thing.
All the opportunities I have had, whether it's traveling around the world and a lot of things or doing my TEDx Talk or my first book, et cetera, those have all come to me as a direct result of relationships that have been built and none of those things were the objective of said relationships. It's like what has kind of bloomed from my network and my relationships far exceed what I ever could have imagined. So I'm grateful that it just so happened back 25 years ago. But counting that I just, I guess intuitively or something decided to actually care about people and to network through the lens of building relationships because most of those relationships are still intact today. That's how I see relationships and the power of networking. How it's been for me.
I relate a lot because looking back at what you just shared, the last part really impacted me because looking back, I have the same thing. The conference, the online networking with the skin that I'm creating. I was part of the Amsterdam American Business Club and how I was doing things there was the same just I was listening to new people. Oh, you have in common, that in common with that person or that person more details about a specific topic and just introducing them, but without an agenda. So it was purely and I think everything is switching and this is what I'm implementing with the online networking, with the spin. The idea is come here, be curious, don't come to sell.
Once you put this as, can I say it as a culture of the event or of the community, then everyone is taking it on board and is helping you implement it. So you don't need to be like a policeman going and saying don't do that because actually everyone around, either they will put you aside or tell you no, that's not the way you do it and you're changing conversations that you have. But I do recognize that and I don't know if in my case everybody knows or you don't know. I'm Romanian. So we do have a lot of background in our culture and where we act.
So for us, it's very important to talk with people and to know like you always have an issue, oh, I know that person that can help me, or that person that could introduce me. That's how it works. So maybe it was in my blood because that means you are okay. So who do I know I have this issue? Who do I know that I can ask and get information or can direct me or can just learn more about that particular topic? But that means you need to, as you said, pay attention when you are discussing with someone. Not to go with a particular reason in mind, but oh, this is what you do. Interesting. This is what I do.
It's like a different muscle in your brain is developing because instead of going with an agenda, you are going and like I have no idea what will happen. Let's see. Way better. What I also believe it's important when it comes to networking and building relationships is actually maintaining those relationships. Because what's the point of having so many 1000 connections if you don't really know them? So you're not able to tap into them. And when I say it's not that you go and ask for a favor like you said, you cut your business. Honestly, I have a very similar situation because I had a big network back home, I had my business back home. Then I moved here, I turned 30 and I was like, what is happening now? I don't know. I knew one person in the Netherlands.
Yeah.
And I was like, the work culture is different. The environment had business in fashion. How do you get the business in fashion in a new country if you don't know the culture? And let me tell you, especially in fashion, the culture in Romania to the one in the Netherlands is so different. At least 13 years ago it was really different. So I felt very lost, honestly. So I said I need to start seeing people. The quickest way to meet people is to get a job and you're going to have an environment. And I used to work for a media company, so I used to network a lot because of my job and travel a lot because of my job.
And that actually opened for me was amazing because I met so many cultures and so many ways of working and networking. When I was doing networking back home, actually, I wasn't sure about proper networking, because I don't think the term was so well used at that particular time, like 20-something years ago. But I think some people are doing it more naturally than others and I think it depends a little bit on your personality. So coming back here, I started to know people the moment I decided to leave the media company, and I wasn't even sure what I wanted to do in terms of business. Just the fact that I sent an email to my former clients saying it was lovely working with you. Let's keep in touch. Resulted in a lot of coffee meetings and phone calls.
And honestly, my business was created and I started having clients before I was really opening my business because of that because they knew what I was doing. And it was very organic and natural. So a little bit like what you said your first 1214 months of your business, you grew quite a lot because of what you did. I think the most important thing when it comes to networking, and this is something that I really want to point out and to be strong is don't go there and say, I'm going to just network and be nice with this person so I can go later. Because if you do that, it will never work. I'm looking at this conference like Lana Yellen is my partner and she was one of the big supporters behind it.
And everyone there that worked, all those connections were like, hey, I love what you're doing, let's have a coffee and get to know each other. Honestly, all of those meetings started like that and what we are doing here was like, hey, I like what you're doing. Let's be curious, let's find out more. And I think if you find that common beta value, be it something in common or purely, you just admire that person and you want to learn more. If you approach networking in that way and you are truly curious about that person, and I love how you play, you say it like, get your ears open, actively listen with purpose, like just be curious and see what is happening with that person. You have no idea what will happen.
And maybe when it happens in one day or two days or five days, it may happen in a couple of months or even years, absolutely. You never know. Yeah.
So as you're speaking, it reminded me, that I just read a great article on LinkedIn by Chris Brogan about networking, and he kind of breaks it into three. There are three buckets of people and how they approach networking. So I feel like we'll link that in the show notes. It's a really great article, very succinct and very relatable. So I'll go into the link that the other thing that reminds me of talking about this very thing and kind of what you were saying about just in your culture and kind of your upbringing and just automatically think, who do I know? Who do I know? In our last episode, you were talking about your first business, I think, with doing the gifts and such. And I was like, oh, it reminds me of Ava. Yeah, I think you recently were able to connect with Ava.
I'm trying to make good on the introductions that I think for you as we're chatting. Cool.
Actually, it's very funny. Yesterday I had a call with someone that I'm going to introduce you to because I think you guys could work very nicely together. But that's the power of it. And actually, if we achieve anything with this podcast, it is to open the minds of people. Like, as you see, guys, basically we are competitors, but we are introducing people to each other.
Right.
The whole point, like if you keep everything very narrow, you'll not be able to grow it. I don't know. Think about money. If you just keep them under your.
Mattress doesn't compound there's no interest there.
Exactly. And they will lose the value in long-term investment and you do something with them. You'd never know what would happen.
So one quick question. I know we're running out of time, but I'm super curious to know just because we have a similar approach and kind of mindset about how we approach relationships, and we both have been growing our agencies for years. How do you know, it's not perfect math, but just to have an idea of, like, 100% of the time, how much time are you spending nurturing relationships versus building new relationships?
That's a hard question.
I know I'm going to think of the answer for myself, but I'm curious for you, honestly.
I'm trying to think because I never really would say it's equally important. The funny thing, the moment you are actually nurturing a relationship, that relationship will introduce you to a new person.
Yeah, right. That's right. When done properly, that's true.
But it becomes very organic. So I would say the same amount of time. How about what's?
So I feel like it's similar, but just a quick call out for that. It just came to me as we were chatting like this. I'm going to guess that you have experienced the same thing with your clients. I think there are a lot of people who think it's time to network when they're in a position of need. When everything is good. Yeah, when you're in a position of need. And it's similar to a lot of companies that think, "oh, everything is good right now, we don't need to do a lot of marketing." And then all of a sudden it gets tight, like, hurry up and market. And it's like, no, you mean hurry up and go sell it's like, not the time. So it's interesting. It's like yeah.
Anyway, there's a little bit of a delineation there, and this probably goes back to Chris Brogan's article, but it's like the idea is to get into a place of being proactive and not reactive and not to just go build a relationship when we need a job or when we need a client or when we need something instead of that way. And being more proactive and reaching out to other people just to nurture the relationship, to say hello, to ask about somebody else's business. Like those things. So I feel like it's encouraging to hear and I'm not surprised that you also continue to spend a lot of time nurturing relationships and building relationships. Period. It's just like standard operating procedure.
And I think it's also important to mention something when you say nurturing a relationship, don't think about possible prospects or things like that. For me, nurturing relationships is also with my collaborators, also with former clients that I know are never going to work with me because they don't need me, it doesn't matter where they are. But you connect with people, forget about the business, connect with the person. If it's an interesting person and brings value to you by speaking with that person. I think that's the approach you should take.
I want to work with you because you're changing the set. But this is according to my values and I do believe I said humans are at the center of everything, not the client, because then you are creating something else.
Interesting. So I feel like we could talk about this. I feel like I always say this because everything we talk about I'm like, but wait, but wait. I want to ask more and more but honestly, it's great to hear from you. I appreciate being able to listen to you and how relationships kind of your value of relationships has continued throughout your life and through building your business, even years into building your business. So great chatting, great to hear from you.
Same here. And I do know we need to finish, otherwise, we can go for hours and one wants to listen to us. But I'm curious maybe in the comments how do the rest of our audience approach networking? Actually, maybe we should do a panel and invite some people or do a live streaming and get people in and discuss with them. I think that could be very interesting.
Understood. Yeah, I think so as well. But for now, I think that's a wrap on episode two.
So thank you all for listening and I hope you'll listen to the next one, episode three. I can't believe it. I will start losing out on them.
Look at us, multiple. All right, until next time.
Thank you for tuning in.